OUT OF ORDER - NO.6 ‘ADVENT’ - JUNE 2015 - BY DORIAN GRINSPAN

JUNE 2015

FOR OVER TWO DECADES, RICK OWENS HAS BUILT A CREATIVE WORLD THAT IS ENTIRELY UNTO ITS OWN. GROWING UP IN CALIFORNIA, OWENS BEGAN TO STUDY DESIGN IN LOS ANGELES BEFORE STARTING HIS OWN LABEL IN 1994. HE EVENTUALLY MOVED TO PARIS AND BEGAN SHOWING HIS COLLECTION THERE, MARKING THE START OF THE WORLD'S LOVE AFFAIR WITH HIS STRIKING AND BRUTALLY MINIMALIST DESIGNS. HIS WORK, PARTICULARLY THE LEATHER JACKETS FOR WHICH HE HAS BECOME BEST KNOWN, HAVE INSPIRED LEGIONS OF CULT-LIKE FOLLOWERS. AND ALONGSIDE HIS PARTNER OF 23 YEARS, MICHELE LAMY, HE HAS CREATED AN AESTHETIC THAT IS IMPRESSIVELY CONSISTENT AND ENDURING. OWENS HIMSELF HAS A FONDNESS FOR SELF-INVENTION, AN IMPULSE THAT FEELS APPROPRIATELY AMERICAN DESPITE HIS COLLECTIONS SHOWING IN PARIS. HERE, HE TALKS ABOUT HIS OWN INVENTIONS, BOTH PERSONALLY AND PROFESSIONALLY, AND WHERE HE'LL GO FROM THERE.

OOO: WHAT DO YOU THINK HAS CONTRIBUTED TO YOUR SUCCESS?

RO: YOU TAKE ONE IDEA AND YOU BEAT IT TO THE GROUND UNTIL PEOPLE BELIEVE YOU. YOU HAVE TO HONE IN ON ONE CONCEPT. THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE SO MUCH IMAGINATION, AND THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO FOCUS ON BECAUSE THEY HAVE SO MUCH ENERGY. THEN THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE ME, WHO MIGHT NOT EVEN HAVE THAT MUCH IMAGINATION BUT KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT. THAT'S A BLESSING FOR ME— I CAN USUALLY FIGURE OUT WHAT I WANT AND WHAT I CAN AIM FOR. PEOPLE WITH A LOT OF IMAGINATION SOMETIMES DON'T HAVE THE PATIENCE OR THE SENSE OF ROUTINE THAT IT TAKES TO REPEAT AN IDEA LONG ENOUGH FOR PEOPLE TO HEAR THEM. I THINK THAT'S WHAT I DID, MAYBE TO A FAULT. I TOOK ONE CONCEPT OR ONE INSPIRATION AND MADE IT MINE BY CLAIMING IT OVER, AND OVER, AND OVER AGAIN, UNTIL PEOPLE DECIDED TO BELIEVE IT.

WHY TO A FAULT?

BECAUSE ONE DAY, I MIGHT NOT RECOGNIZE WHEN THAT MOMENT IS OVER AND IT'S TIME TO MOVE ON.

DO YOU THINK THAT MOMENT WILL COME?

I SEE IT HAPPENING TO OTHER DESIGNERS SOMETIMES. I'M NOT GOING TO NAME NAMES, BUT YOU SEE THEY RECOGNIZE THE MOMENT IN SUCH A COMPLETE, RESOLVED WAY FOR A PERIOD OF TIME, AND NOW THEY'RE STUCK THERE AND HAVEN'T MOVED ON. IN THE '90S OR '80S, THEY WERE BRILLIANT, AND NOW THEY'RE IRRELEVANT. IT'S INEVITABLE. BUT IT DOES CREEP ME OUT. I'M NOT LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT DAY.

WOULD YOU CHANGE, IF YOU RECOGNIZED IT?

IF I RECOGNIZED IT, YEAH. THEN I WOULD KEEP ON GOING.

WOULD YOU EVER STOP DESIGNING?

MY EGO WOULD PROBABLY NEVER ALLOW ME TO. THIS WHOLE THING IS ADDICTIVE. I THINK EVERYBODY'S MOTIVATION IN LIFE IS TO BE LISTENED TO. A PARENT'S MOTIVATION IS TO HAVE THEIR CHILDREN LEARN AND LISTEN TO THEM. FOR ROMANCE, YOU WANT SOMEBODY TO WORSHIP YOU AND RESPOND TO YOU. IT'S ALL ABOUT BEING LISTENED TO. I'VE CREATED A WORLD WHERE I'VE SAID THINGS, AND PEOPLE HAVE RESPONDED, AND IT'S IRRESISTIBLE. IT'S HUMAN NATURE TO CRAVE IT AND WANT IT. AND IF YOU GET ENOUGH OF IT, BUT IT STARTS FADING AWAY, THAT'S UNCOMFORTABLE. THAT'S WHY I'M FASCINATED BY SOMEONE LIKE MARGIELA OR HELMUT LANG. IS STOPPING [DESIGNING] REALLY WHAT THEY IMAGINED IT TO BE? IT'S HARD FOR ME TO IMAGINE THAT IT FEELS BETTER. I THINK THE RESPONSE IS TOO ADDICTIVE. WHEN PEOPLE ARE LISTENING, YOU'RE COMMUNICATING WITH THE WORLD AND FULFILLING YOUR POTENTIAL. YOU'RE GUIDING PEOPLE INTO THE MOSH PIT OF THE WORLD, AND IT'S AN ORGY. YOU'RE A STAR OF THE ORGY. WHAT DO YOU DO AFTER THAT? HOW DO YOU CALM DOWN AFTER THAT? OR, IT'S LIKE BEING IN A WAR, AND YOU'RE A GENERAL. THERE'S GLORY, AND EVERYTHING HAS A SENSE OF URGENCY AND IMPORTANCE. AND AFTER THAT, IT MUST SEEM A LITTLE BLAND, YOUR DAY-TO-DAY EXISTENCE. IT'S A WEIRD THING. BUT IT'S NOT LIKE I'M HAVING THIS GLORIOUS MOMENT THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. MY WHOLE THING IS VERY INSIGNIFICANT COMPARED TO WHAT OTHER PEOPLE DO. ALL I'M SAYING IS, WHEN YOU'RE IN THIS RHYTHM OF CALLING AND RESPONDING, IT'S LOVELY. IT'S ONE OF THE MOST SATISFYING THINGS ON THE PLANET, TO BE PART OF A COMMUNITY AND BE ENGAGED AND TO START A CONVERSATION.

ARE YOU EVER NERVOUS THAT THE CONVERSATION MIGHT BE NEGATIVE?

I'M NOT, REALLY, BECAUSE EVERYTHING THAT I PUT OUT THERE IS ABOUT LOVE AND AFFECTION AND WARMTH. MAYBE I'M SO OBLIVIOUS THAT I CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT BAD RESPONSE WOULD MATTER, IN CONTRAST TO THAT. WHAT WOULD I ACCEPT THAT WAS NEGATIVE TO THE MOST EARNEST EFFORTS? OF COURSE, I'VE DONE STUFF RIGHT, AND SOME PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SAY MY STUFF IS DUMB, BUT I'M GOING TO SAY, 'OKAY, BUT I DID MY BEST, AND IT WAS ALL PUT OUT THERE WITH A LOVING SPIRIT. SO IF THAT DOESN'T WORK FOR YOU, I TOTALLY GET IT, BUT IT DOESN'T THREATEN ME.' I'M NOT PUTTING SOMETHING OUT THERE THAT IS WRONG FOR THE WORLD. EVERYTHING I PUT OUT, I FEEL IS A POSITIVE CONTRIBUTION. THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO DO. I WANT TO CONTRIBUTE SOMETHING VERY POSITIVE.

THAT'S A GREAT ATTITUDE.

I HATE TO MAKE IT SOUND LIKE I'VE GOT ALL THE ANSWERS. BUT I'M 53, SO IT FEELS GOOD TO KNOW MORE THAN I DID WHEN I WAS 22. IT'S NICE TO GET OLDER AND KNOW WHO YOU ARE. YOU START TO ACCEPT WHO YOU ARE AND YOUR FLAWS, AND YOU DON'T PUNISH YOURSELF ANYMORE FOR BEING NOT PERFECT.

IN YOUR STORE IN PARIS, THERE'S A STATUE OF YOU— WOULD YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF A NARCISSIST?

YEAH, I DO. AND I'M VERY BLATANT ABOUT IT, BECAUSE THAT ISN'T REALLY ME. THAT'S AN INVENTION. WHAT I'M SAYING WITH THAT STATUE IS THAT I INVENTED MYSELF, AND SO CAN YOU. ANYBODY ON THE PLANET CAN INVENT HIMSELF OR HERSELF, IT JUST TAKES A LITTLE BIT OF IMAGINATION, A LITTLE BIT OF CONFIDENCE, AND A LOT OF WORK TO BE WHO YOU WANT TO BE. UNDERNEATH ALL THIS, I'M JUST A PEAR-SHAPED PUDGY KID FROM A SMALL TOWN, BUT I CREATED IT. MY HAIR IS GREY AND CURLY RIGHT NOW, AND THE BODY WAS STEROIDS AND WORKING OUT LIKE A FIEND WITH TRAINERS. IT'S ALL ABOUT INDUSTRY. THAT'S WHAT THE STATUE MEANS. IT'S INDUSTRY AND ARTIFICE, AND IT'S BELIEVING IN SOMETHING AND MAKING IT HAPPEN.

WHAT ABOUT BEING TRUE TO YOURSELF?

WELL, WHAT IS 'TRUE TO YOURSELF'? THAT'S WHO I WANTED TO BE. IT IS TRUE TO MYSELF BECAUSE I ACCEPTED WHAT THERE WAS; I WORKED WITH WHAT I HAD AND MADE IT AS GOOD AS IT COULD POSSIBLY BE, IN MY EYES. HOW MUCH MORE TRUE TO YOURSELF CAN YOU BE? I DIDN'T CREATE SOMETHING IMPOSSIBLE. I DIDN'T AIM TOO HIGH. [LAUGHS) BUT THAT'S WHAT THAT STATUE IS SAYING. IT'S ALSO SAYING THAT WHEN YOU COME TO THE STORE, THIS ISN'T A COMMITTEE DECISION. THIS ISN'T A GROUP OF DESIGNERS. THIS IS ONE PERSON'S OEUVRE, FOR BETTER OR WORSE.

YOU'VE SAID BEFORE THAT YOUR SHOWS ARE NOT IMPORTANT TO YOU; IT'S MORE ABOUT HAVING PEOPLE BUY YOUR CLOTHES.

WHEN I STARTED OUT, IT WASN'T REALLY SHOW— OR PRESS— ORIENTED. IT WAS ABOUT ME TAKING A BAG OF CLOTHES TO THE BACK OFFICES OF STORES, AND TALKING WITH THE BUYERS AND SELLING CLOTHES AND LISTENING TO WHAT PEOPLE WERE RESPONDING TO. THERE WAS SOMETHING ABOUT THAT EXPERIENCE THAT WAS MORE HARDCORE AND TRUE. IT WAS REAL. RUNWAY SHOWS AND PRESS— IT'S LIKE HIGH SCHOOL. IT'S LIKE THE KIDS WHO HAD ALL THE RIGHT CLOTHES IN HIGH SCHOOL.

HOW DID YOU DRESS IN HIGH SCHOOL?

I HAD A ROD STEWART HAIRCUT— HE WAS BIG, THEN— AND PROBABLY A KISS T-SHIRT. I WOULDN'T WEAR SHOES MOST OF THE TIME, BECAUSE NOT WEARING SHOES WAS REALLY COOL. IT WAS A HIPPIE, POT-SMOKING THING.

YOU'VE SPOKEN ABOUT YOUR AESTHETIC BEING 'BROKEN IDEALISM.' I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD TALK ABOUT THAT FURTHER.

I LOVE THE IDEA OF MAKING YOURSELF BETTER, OF IMPROVEMENT, OF GETTING TO SOME KIND OF SPIRITUAL LEVEL OF TRANSCENDENCE. BUT I THINK YOU NEVER REALLY GET THERE; LIFE IS A PROCESS OF TRYING TO GET THERE, AND YOU NEVER REALLY DO. THERE ARE MOMENTS OF IT, THERE ARE GLIMMERS OF IT, AND THAT'S WHAT MOVES US FORWARD. THIS IDEA OF PURE TRANSCENDENCE IS SUCH A GREAT ONE, BUT IT'S ALWAYS JUST OUT OF REACH. THERE'S SOMETHING KIND OF POIGNANT AND LOVELY AND MELANCHOLY ABOUT JUST ACCEPTING THE GLORY OF THE EFFORT AS GLORY ENOUGH ON ITS OWN. IT'S WHAT I RESPOND TO THE MOST.

IS THAT WHY THE COLOR BLACK IS SO PREVALENT?

WHEN I FIRST STARTED OUT, I WAS VERY ANTI-BLACK. THERE WAS SOME BLACK FOR PUNCTUATION, BUT I WAS REALLY PROMOTING GREY. I HAD BEEN WEARING GREY THROUGH YOUNG ADULTHOOD. BLACK IS ABOUT INSECURITY; IT'S ABOUT AGGRESSION; IT'S ABOUT TRYING TO PRESENT A FIERCE EXTERIOR WHEN YOU'RE INSECURE UNDERNEATH IT. IT'S ADOLESCENT AND MELODRAMATIC. I THOUGHT, 'I'M GOING TO DO GREY.' GREY IS ABOUT SOFTNESS. THERE CAN BE A WARMTH TO IT. THERE CAN BE A LITTLE BIT OF MELANCHOLY THERE, BUT IT'S ALSO ABOUT RESTRAINT AND DISCRETION AND, MAYBE, NOT PUTTING YOURSELF FIRST. I THOUGHT IT WAS A GENTLE EXPRESSION. I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST MORE ELEGANT, AND I STILL DO. MOST OF MY INTERIORS ARE GREY. MY BEDROOM IS GREY. MY PACKAGING FOR EVERYTHING IS GREY. BUT IN THIS WORLD, GREY SOMETIMES GETS A LITTLE DIRTY AND WASHED OUT AND SAD. IN A VERY BUSY WORLD WITH A LOT OF MESSINESS, BLACK TO ME NOW IS MORE ABOUT TIDINESS. IT CREATES A NICE LINE. WHEN YOU SEE A GROUP OF PEOPLE WEARING BLACK, MAYBE IT'S NOT AS NICE. BUT WHEN YOU SEE ONE PERSON IN THE MIDDLE OF EVERYTHING WEARING BLACK, THERE'S SOMETHING VERY NICE ABOUT THE PUNCTUATION OF THE BLACK LINE, AND IT CREATES A VERY NICE PEDESTAL FOR THE HEAD. THAT'S WHY I DO MONOCHROMATIC OUTFITS SO OFTEN, BECAUSE THERE'S SOMETHING NICE ABOUT MAKING AN UNFUSSY PEDESTAL FOR A HEAD.

I FEEL LIKE GENDER IDENTITY IS A BIG PART OF THE CONVERSATION NOW, MORE THAN EVER, AND IT'S ALSO SOMETHING THAT YOU'VE ADDRESSED QUITE A BIT. I'M WONDERING HOW YOU DEFINE THE BOUNDARY BETWEEN MASCULINITY AND FEMININITY.

I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN, AND I CERTAINLY AM NOT QUALIFIED TO. I JUST NATURALLY DON'T RECOGNIZE IT, AND THAT'S WHY MY GENDERS BLUR SO MUCH.

HOW LONG HAVE YOU AND YOUR WIFE BEEN TOGETHER? WHAT ROLE DOES SHE PLAY IN YOUR LIFE?

TWENTY-THREE YEARS. MICHELE HUMANIZES ME, AND SHE CONNECTS ME WITH THE WORLD IN A VERY DIFFERENT WAY THAT I WOULD ON MY OWN. I WOULD LOOK AT EVERYTHING BEHIND GLASS BY MYSELF WITHOUT HER. SHE ENGAGES ME AND INVOLVES ME IN THE WORLD MORE AND CREATES A FAMILY AROUND ME. WHERE I LOCK THE DOOR AND SHUT EVERYONE OUT, SHE INVITES THEM IN. SO IT'S A CONSTANT STRUGGLE. [LAUGHS] BUT ONE THAT I KNOW I CREATED FOR MYSELF OUT OF SOME GREAT INSTINCT FOR SELF-PRESERVATION... SHE'S AN INCREDIBLE HANDFUL. I'VE NEVER MET ANYONE AS POTENT, SO I THINK I'M VERY LUCKY.

DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE IDEA OF A SOULMATE?

I THINK SO. I ALSO THINK EVERYONE ENDS UP WHERE THEY WANT TO BE. IF YOU'RE MISERABLE, YOU WANT TO BE THERE BECAUSE YOU ENJOY THE DRAMA. LIKE I SAID, PEOPLE CAN REALLY PLACE THEMSELVES WHERE THEY BELONG AND WHERE THEY NEED TO BE. I'M SURE THERE'S A VERY CYNICAL, CALCULATING PART OF MY HEAD THAT KNOWS WHAT CAN WORK. I'M SURE THERE'S AN ELEMENT OF THAT IN ALL RELATIONSHIPS.

YOUR SHOWS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN KIND OF PARTICULAR BECAUSE YOU GET A CERTAIN TYPE OF PEOPLE OUTSIDE. THEY ALL WEAR YOUR DESIGNS, AND IT'S LIKE A RICK OWENS TRIBE. I'M WONDERING IF THAT'S SOMETHING YOU'RE PROUD OF, IF IT'S SOMETHING YOU LOOK TO.

YOU CAN'T HELP BUT BE AFFECTED BY THAT. IT'S VALIDATING, AND I FEEL VERY PATERNAL ABOUT IT. IT'S VERY MOVING TO HAVE PEOPLE CONNECT WITH YOU THAT WAY. I DON'T KNOW HOW RESPONSIBLE I REALLY AM FOR IT. WHEN I THINK ABOUT WHAT I DO OR WHAT I'VE MADE, ALL I'VE DONE IS ARRANGED REFERENCES OR MADE COMPOSITIONS THAT A LOT OF US RECOGNIZE. I'VE MADE A HAIKU ABOUT REFERENCE POINTS THAT WE CAN ALL CONNECT WITH AND CREATED AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE EVERYBODY CAN CELEBRATE IT. I DON'T KNOW HOW MAGICAL THAT REALLY IS. IT'S NOT LIKE I INVENTED IT, BUT I CREATED A PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO COME AND TALK ABOUT IT.

GROWING UP, I PROBABLY DIDN'T DEVELOP CERTAIN SOCIAL SKILLS AND OVER­COMPENSATED BY DRINKING AND DOING DRUGS TOO MUCH TO FEEL COMFORTABLE, LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE DO. BUT I WAS DETERMINED TO GET INVOLVED, EVEN IF IT MADE ME UNCOMFORTABLE. I WAS DETERMINED TO BE PART OF THE WORLD SOMEHOW, SO I FORCED MYSELF TO DO THAT. I'M SURE I WAS INCREDIBLY AWKWARD AND SILLY, BUT I PARTICIPATED. I GOT INTO THE MOSH PIT. I THINK I'M IN THE MOSH PIT NOW. I FEEL LIKE I'M BODYSURFING ON AN AUDIENCE IN THE LOVELIEST WAY. I FEEL LIKE I'M TOUCHING PEOPLE AND I'M ENGAGED AND CONNECTED.

WHAT WAS IT LIKE LIVING IN LA?

IT WAS FUN BEING A YOUNG ADULT IN LOS ANGELES. I'LL GO BACK AT SOME POINT. I HAVEN'T BEEN BACK IN 14 YEARS, BUT IT IS A WONDERFUL PLACE. I DON'T LIKE NEW YORK. IT'S LIKE A VIP ROOM. THE COUNTRY IS SO BIG, AND EVERY­BODY IS TRYING TO CRAM THEMSELVES INTO THIS TINY VIP ROOM. AND LOS ANGELES IS OPEN, AND IT'S BEAUTIFUL AND IT'S PRETTY. BUT IT'S ALSO BECOMING THE NEW VIP ROOM. I HAVEN'T BEEN BACK IN SO LONG, BUT I'VE HEARD THAT EVERYONE CLEVER IS GOING THERE.

DO YOU HAVE A PLAN FOR THE FUTURE?